I know somebody out there has an opinion on this that might help me.  Here's the deal.  As I've commented on before, I love a lot of things about my 07FHLTC.  However, what I don't love is the fact that it is basically a slug in the performance department.  I won't get into that because it raises emotions and opinions that we can discuss in another place.  So, the bike was bone stock (96inch, 6speed, factory exhaust, etc.).  I was shocked and horrified by its lack of power especially at highway speeds bucking headwinds, going uphill, trying to pull of a quick pass, etc.  I know there are lots of things one can do, but I'm thinking that the obvious starting point is air and fuel so I added a stage 1 breather, rinehart true duals, and the "appropriate" remap.  Now it has a tiny bit more power in the upper rpms and less torque on takeoff, its loud, and I'm not all that pleased so far but I know I had to add air and exhaust no matter what so there it is.  Do I add the FI tuner next?  Which one?  How do I know which one is the best for me?  One guy swears by the powercommander, another by the VH fuelpak, another by the thundermax, and on and on.  The problem is, nobody can tell me why one is any better than another and I only want to do this once.  I have a lot of spare parts lying around and I don't want to add an expensive ECM device to the pile.  Do I just need a 131 JIMS and be done with it or is there a rational way to do this and to know the right path.  HELP ME      

The EFI tuners have different advantages when comparing one to another.  The most important thing about choosing an EFI Tuner is finding which system that the person tuning the bike is comfortable with.

The SERT is probably one of the best software on the market but, a big disadvantage is that if you take it to a different tuner, he can not remove and adjust the map in the computer unless you have the map on a separate disk.

The designer of the SERT is also now selling a tuner that is very similar.  The company is call ed TTS.

The T-Max is a very complicated but a very good auto tune system especially for mild engine builds.

Power commander uses a jumper device to fool the ECM into thinking that the O2 sensors are still connected.  They have updated their system to include an auto tune feature instead of the jumper device but it is only for the 2008 and later bikes.

One suggestion that I would make is replacing the Rineharts with a D&D Fat Cat.  This is a good platform for any modifications that you may make later.  I would also install a set of Woods TW-7H cams.  Again, this is a good platform for later modifications.  Of course a big bore kit will give you a lot too.  

well, I really don't have a problem with software-related issues.  The pc-based links that I've seen are pretty much set up the mentally challenged so I'm right there.  Bought the Rineharts knowing that a 2 to 1 was a better performance move but then buying a bike without bags that doesn't say HD on it is a better performance move too but I still chose to go this way.  I wanted dualies because it matches the bike. Now, I will have to work around that, I guess.  I'll look into the cam and head work.  What I'm wondering is:  If I'm eventually going to put 3-4K into the engine, maybe it would be smarter to do it all at once and do something like a SE pro race kit 113 or who knows what.  If the bike has approximately 70-75hp now if I'm lucky, I'm thinking somewhere around 110-115 is a good goal.  More sounds good but it is not necessary.  I want a bike that rides very nicely at whatever speed I want out in the desert, accelerates from 60-90 VERY quickly and has no problem cruising at higher freeway speeds with lots of reserve.  I'm actually a pretty sedate rider but I hate that "maxed out" feeling that comes with riding full throttle up a hill and a corolla leisurely passes me by.  Now that's just embarassing!  So, were back to the same thing, I need an air fuel controller first.  I don't want to spend 7-900$$ if I don't have to so the thundermax right now just looks like a bit of excess.  So, is it still the powercommander vs the VH fuelpak?  Sorry, I'm still confused.  Maybe I should stick to operating.  That's where I feel  comfortable  

yo Red,

I ride with a power commander chip on my 96inch road king with the same rinehart true duals and heavy breather kit, and my bike rocks!.  Granted that over this past winter my Dad and I rebuilt the motor--we bored out the motor from the stock 88 (it's an 05 bike) to the now 96, port and polished the heads, adding new piston heads and a beefier mid-range cam, and did the necessary re-mapping and tuning with the chip.

my old man just got an 09' screaming eagle road glide, and he's pretty content on leaving it bone stock (save for a breather kit and a pair of Basannis).  So we're out hot-rodin' the other night, we both get going around 30mph in 2nd gear at 3000rpms and hit the throttle full bore at the same time.  On past bikes, he would always blow me away.  But alas! my sled kept up with his brand new 09 top of the line road glide!  neck and neck!  I even pulled ahead of him half of time--it really came down to who got the jump off the get go.  

so take it for what its worth-- i got a 96 inch motor with rineharts, a breather kit, and a powercomander, and my bike give me all the juice i could ask for from a bagger.  


p.s. And i do agree, the things are dogshit slow out of the box.  almost laughable.  my last bike was a 05 Honda VTX 1300 with some shotgun pipes and a breather kit on it, and it blew this road king out of the water.  but hey, it didn't say harley on it! (that sounds almost pathetic)  

and whoever said to switch your pipes is a mad man-- not only would that be another huge hit to the wallet, but i think the reinharts sound absolutely the best out of all the brands.  that sharp, yet throaty snap combined with those black end caps?  thats sounds like mechanical sex to my eardrums!  

LongHairedEagle:
and whoever said to switch your pipes is a mad man-- not only would that be another huge hit to the wallet, but i think the reinharts sound absolutely the best out of all the brands.  that sharp, yet throaty snap combined with those black end caps?  thats sounds like mechanical sex to my eardrums!

Hey LHE.  Thanks for the real life-advice.  I saw a video of the previous poster's bike doing rather amazing things awhile back and really wish mine was right there next to it, but alas, I've got to live in a more real world.  We all have stories about what led us to current choices and some are more lame than others.  Without regard to the lameness quotient, I sold my last bike (BMW K1200) and ended up getting my glide-classic because I think the style is excellent and because my long-distant brother is a bit of a HD fanatic and I wanted a common bond.  The latter worked and at any price it was worth it.  So, without any sad comparisons to the BMW, I've added a stabilizer (worked a little), a nice seat (mustang), a chrome part here and there to make it mine, a back rest for those long cruises, a cruise control (in progress), some lowers (AWESOME), and plan for better tires (hopefully to lose the wobble), an inch drop to the rear, and as I have whined about, MORE POWER.  I've got a local guy who comes highly recommended by the HD dealer for engine upgrades.  I can't have HD do a lot of stuff since I live in CAL and evidently a lot of reasonable upgrades aren't street legal. I am not about to change my pipes at this point for a couple of HP and a drop in curb appeal unless I find it to be absolutely necessary.  I really don't want to throw an extra 1000 at it that could be better applied to other more entertaining stuff like long vacations cruising to who-knows-where.  I appreciate your powercommander  report.  The guys at WrightBrosCustoms highly recommend it but I balked since it appeared to be motivated by a dealer arrangement rather than what is best for me.  They are good guys but hey, gotta stay awake or add stuff to the spare parts pile that is getting more expensive all the time.  I'll upgrade cams and head.  Not too sure about if I need to go with higher displacement or if I can do it later without spending a lot more money than it would have cost me now.  The procharger is looking better all the time except my lowers wouldn't fit anymore.    

wow, tradin' up the beemer for the glide.  big switch.  In all honesty, the *** Germans, and everyone else has pretty much got us beat in the power department.  They just do.  but its that die-hard American pride that keeps us loyal to those Milwaukee beasts.  and with a little love and some elbow grease (and a couple grand) you can have one runnin' neck and neck with any of those foreign sleds.  God, its great to be an American.  

i suppose I can't abbreviate Japanese to it's first three letters... but i did get away with dogshit slow.  that's was nice.

and about savin' the extra dough and spending it on something else... i highly suggest it.  Its easy to ride the tub for a night and pull her back in the garage with a list of upgrades and little projects.  but after a 2000 mile week-long road trip, it may help to put some things in perspective.  enjoy what you have, and use that extra dough at roadside diners and campsites.  

Rice?  I guess that's four letters.  Yeah, well, I'm trying to be nice.  I looked at a 'wing for a few seconds once until it was pointed out to me that they are basically the luxury minivan of the bike world. Now I have no beef with minivans but have never really wanted to own one yet when is the last time you heard someone in the goldwing owners club or some such organization researching the best performance parts to increasing cornering, horsepower and torque...well, that's just a different world.  The beemer?  yeah, that was something altogether different.  Rode nice at 50 and rode just as nice at 110 and had a lot of throttle left too.  Put close to 20K on that bike last year jammin' around the desert, up and down the coast, and just basically enjoying the wind and the sights.  The thousands in the bike crowd at the Yuma cruise accepted me and I appreciated it.  A few more tweaks and I'll be doing that all over again.  Headed out right now to plan the next stage.  Gotta keep it below a grand just for the sake of principle  

i hear that.  gotta get out and ride.  put some miles on.  ride on.  

I was the person that suggested replacing the Rineharts with a D&D Fat Cat.  You could also use a V&H Pro Pipe.

You said "so I added a stage 1 breather, rinehart true duals, and the "appropriate" remap.  Now it has a tiny bit more power in the upper rpms and less torque on takeoff,"

This should tell you something.  The Rineharts sound and look good but they won't perform like a good 2 into 1.

Here is "Real World" results:


Notice the TQ is 80 at 2000 rpm and maxes out with 122 TQ at 4000 rpm.
This graph is of my personal bike that I did a quick map.  That's why there is a dip between 2500 - 3000 rpm.  If mapped properly, the number could be smoother and higher.  I was mapping it just to get it close enough to remap with Nitrous.



You asked for help so, I thought I would give suggestion based on experience since I do this for a living.

HemrickPerformance.com

Nine time dyno winner.  

This is good stuff.  I'm sure you realize how annoying it is to have someone say they want help and then refuse to take it.  It happens to me every day only I don't modify and do cool things to bikes for a living.  In any event, I think the best way to state this is that I would rather live with the rineharts if I can accomplish what I want in other ways.  Riding a HD is very much about being happy with comfort and style and then working to get the horses out of it.  Part of the looks to me is the bags and the pipes.  If I absolutely have to hang a 2 into 1 on the side, I will but I would really like to build this thing with a set of dual pipes.  Hope that makes sense.  having said that, I went out and did some investigation over the weekend and it seems that no matter what the next step is it will cost me around 2K and that looks like heads and cams.  Now I sit here contemplating the fact that my engine is perfect and is probably worth 1500+ if I sell it and the cost of a big inch engine like an S&S, or some other monster is not a lot more than a set of cams and some head work.  I realize I am probably beating this to death but it is all dollar signs vs horsepower/torque.  Wouldn't it be reasonable to drop in a 120 or some such thing and just get over the little upgrades to the factory HD plant?  Or am I hallucinating?  I really do appreciate your input, I'd just like to be strange and keep my 2 pipes.  

Here is the answer to your problem.

The new D&D "Boss"
http://www.danddexhaust.com/catalog/2009/01/54932.htm

Just add the "Ghost Pipe".


http://www.danddexhaust.com/catalog/2009/02/54931g.htm

 

So, how often does this happen.  I'm begging for the reasonable, relatively inexpensive setup to get some ooomph at cruise and at takeoff.  You see the advice given above.  Well, I'm generally skeptical since every time I throw money at something a big wind comes up and blows it away.  Now please don't get me wrong.  I know I'm hearing advice from the pros but...well, I'm just not so sure about things.  So, rather than stand in the garage scratching my head or something I rode down to the local rider's desiniation just to get some air and say HEY to whomever else did the same.  About 200 bikes there and about 8 bikes over from my parking spot is a bike that looks like a twin to mine but its got D&D pipes on it.  So I politely complimented the owner on his gorgeous bike and we got to BS'n about stuff.  I told him about my search and asked him if he'd found the answer.  He grinned and said, " well, I've done exactly the same things to my bike that you have excetp the pipes.  No tuner yet...the fob's in the lowers.  Take it up the street and back and tell me what you think".  So I did just that.  So, my butt dyno told me the story.  A little smoother torque application on takeoff and that's it.  Otherwise, I could have been on my own bike.  Nice guy.  I wont be dropping the 6-8 bills for the D&D's this week.  that guy is getting ready to install a Vance and Hines FuelPak in the next couple of weeks.  Says he'll let me take it for a spin.  OH, I forgot to say, when I returned on his bike I found him on mine riding around the parking lot.  He says he loves his pipe but like the way mine sound.  Guess none of us are totally satisfied.  

I'm on the left with my 103" and that's my wife on the right with her 130 HP 95".  We're both happy with our builds.  By the way, the orange cone in the center of the track (under my front wheel) is the 60 foot sensor (60 foot from the starting line).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRUAvnEAeiI


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